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	<title>Comments on: Oracle Android argument flounders thanks to coder Judge</title>
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	<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/</link>
	<description>Feeding Your Gadget and Tech Obsessions</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 17:46:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: n900mixalot</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211331</link>
		<dc:creator>n900mixalot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 16:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211331</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was using a very wide-angle lens on that one--i.e., yes.

Honestly, I really doubt the jury was in there... hopefully he called a bench conference. But either way, if it was said on the record Oracle could be smart to preserve any objections to the judge&#039;s order for appeal.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was using a very wide-angle lens on that one&#8211;i.e., yes.</p>
<p>Honestly, I really doubt the jury was in there&#8230; hopefully he called a bench conference. But either way, if it was said on the record Oracle could be smart to preserve any objections to the judge&#8217;s order for appeal.</p>
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		<title>By: compternerd</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211329</link>
		<dc:creator>compternerd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 16:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211329</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The judge is right. 2 people 3000 miles apart can code the same thing so closely the same or even identical. 9 lines of code the same? out of 15 million? if they were trying to save time wouldn&#039;t they have just copied a couple hundred ? or 15 million? 9 lines of code is only 1 loop of hundreds in a program. Oracle is grasping at straws. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The judge is right. 2 people 3000 miles apart can code the same thing so closely the same or even identical. 9 lines of code the same? out of 15 million? if they were trying to save time wouldn&#8217;t they have just copied a couple hundred ? or 15 million? 9 lines of code is only 1 loop of hundreds in a program. Oracle is grasping at straws. </p>
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		<title>By: Kyle Fullmer</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211324</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle Fullmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 16:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211324</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Please tell me you understand the difference between hate crimes and hobbies...

But yeah, injecting his own opinion into a courtroom with a jury may backfire here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please tell me you understand the difference between hate crimes and hobbies&#8230;</p>
<p>But yeah, injecting his own opinion into a courtroom with a jury may backfire here.</p>
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		<title>By: thereasoner</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211147</link>
		<dc:creator>thereasoner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 21:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211147</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow, give it up Oracle ! They are so desperate that now they have sunk to a new low, trying to manipulate the court with false/misleading arguments. They just got bitchslaped by a no nonsense judge who just happened to know better. If we could only get this judge to handle Apples ridiculous design patent lawsuits, then all would be right in the tech world for a change.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, give it up Oracle ! They are so desperate that now they have sunk to a new low, trying to manipulate the court with false/misleading arguments. They just got bitchslaped by a no nonsense judge who just happened to know better. If we could only get this judge to handle Apples ridiculous design patent lawsuits, then all would be right in the tech world for a change.</p>
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		<title>By: n900mixalot</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211091</link>
		<dc:creator>n900mixalot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 17:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211091</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Now the attorney is being accused of lying? That is an entirely different bag of bones and guess what? There are rules for that too! Judges have to follow strict rules. That is all there is to it. Here we have a judge who made a decision based on personal bias. It was inappropriate to do so and Oracle&#039;s case was prejudiced by it. That is all there is to it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now the attorney is being accused of lying? That is an entirely different bag of bones and guess what? There are rules for that too! Judges have to follow strict rules. That is all there is to it. Here we have a judge who made a decision based on personal bias. It was inappropriate to do so and Oracle&#8217;s case was prejudiced by it. That is all there is to it.</p>
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		<title>By: Pyromra</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211090</link>
		<dc:creator>Pyromra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 17:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211090</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[and none of those words deal with what we are talking about... they all relate to whether the judge should know about what is being debated... this discussion is about whether he is allowed to stop an attorney for lying]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and none of those words deal with what we are talking about&#8230; they all relate to whether the judge should know about what is being debated&#8230; this discussion is about whether he is allowed to stop an attorney for lying</p>
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		<title>By: n900mixalot</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211088</link>
		<dc:creator>n900mixalot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 17:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211088</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hahaha. Awww you dictionaried me. Hopefully that is at LEAST from Black&#039;s LAW Dictionary--which it isnt. First look it up in Black&#039;s. Look up the Judicial Code of Ethics. And look up Impartiality. Also Prejudice. Then look up Appeal.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hahaha. Awww you dictionaried me. Hopefully that is at LEAST from Black&#8217;s LAW Dictionary&#8211;which it isnt. First look it up in Black&#8217;s. Look up the Judicial Code of Ethics. And look up Impartiality. Also Prejudice. Then look up Appeal.</p>
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		<title>By: Pyromra</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211085</link>
		<dc:creator>Pyromra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 17:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211085</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[pre·side/priˈzīd/
Verb:Be in the position of authority in a meeting or gathering:  &quot;Bishop Herbener presided at the meeting&quot;.Be in charge of (a place or situation).Like I said, its their job to make sure things are done properly. Now where from this article did you read that the other lawyers didnt object, and that the judge made those statements as his reason for sustaining them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pre·side/priˈzīd/<br />
Verb:Be in the position of authority in a meeting or gathering:  &#8220;Bishop Herbener presided at the meeting&#8221;.Be in charge of (a place or situation).Like I said, its their job to make sure things are done properly. Now where from this article did you read that the other lawyers didnt object, and that the judge made those statements as his reason for sustaining them.</p>
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		<title>By: n900mixalot</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211083</link>
		<dc:creator>n900mixalot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 17:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211083</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Judges are NOT allowed to do their own factual research.

It is in the Code of Ethics!

And if you had judges deciding based on their own relative experiences, cases would end up all over the place and there would be ZERO consistency and things would be ... wait a minute ... the way they are now! Fancy that!

There are entire classes and courses on this very subject. Go to law school, you will see.

;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judges are NOT allowed to do their own factual research.</p>
<p>It is in the Code of Ethics!</p>
<p>And if you had judges deciding based on their own relative experiences, cases would end up all over the place and there would be ZERO consistency and things would be &#8230; wait a minute &#8230; the way they are now! Fancy that!</p>
<p>There are entire classes and courses on this very subject. Go to law school, you will see.</p>
<p>;)</p>
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		<title>By: n900mixalot</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211081</link>
		<dc:creator>n900mixalot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 17:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211081</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No it isn&#039;t. The judge&#039;s job, here, is to be the gatekeeper of evidence and to make sure that the evidence presented is appropriate for the jury to hear and use to decide the case.

Lawyers pull fast ones all of the time in court, whether judges notice it or not. If opposing counsel doesnt catch it then too bad. The only time it doesnt work is if there is a legal reason why the evidence is inadmissible. 

That is not the case here. A SMART judge would have said, OUTSIDE OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY, &quot;I know how long it takes to come up with X type of code, and it isn&#039;t that long, but I will allow you to present evidence to the jury to that end because they are the ones who need to decide here.&quot;

When this case is appealed you can guarantee that this will be one of the reasons Oracle appeals. The judge did not allow them to present evidence showing how long it would have taken to come up with X type of code, therefore their case was prejudiced.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No it isn&#8217;t. The judge&#8217;s job, here, is to be the gatekeeper of evidence and to make sure that the evidence presented is appropriate for the jury to hear and use to decide the case.</p>
<p>Lawyers pull fast ones all of the time in court, whether judges notice it or not. If opposing counsel doesnt catch it then too bad. The only time it doesnt work is if there is a legal reason why the evidence is inadmissible. </p>
<p>That is not the case here. A SMART judge would have said, OUTSIDE OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY, &#8220;I know how long it takes to come up with X type of code, and it isn&#8217;t that long, but I will allow you to present evidence to the jury to that end because they are the ones who need to decide here.&#8221;</p>
<p>When this case is appealed you can guarantee that this will be one of the reasons Oracle appeals. The judge did not allow them to present evidence showing how long it would have taken to come up with X type of code, therefore their case was prejudiced.</p>
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		<title>By: n900mixalot</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211079</link>
		<dc:creator>n900mixalot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 17:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211079</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No, trust me I didnt forget that. $200k and a distaste for ignorance remind me every day. 

:)

The point is that evidence is supposed to be evaluated by the jury and ONLY the jury in this case. This is a jury trial not a bench trial. If it is BS, it is the opposing party&#039;s job to point that out to the decider--the jury. It is not the judge&#039;s job to poke holes in anyone&#039;s case because the judge is NOT the fact finder in a jury trial.

Judges DO get to decide whether evidence is adnissible or not ... and that is where they inject their opinions all day long. It cant be helped, they are human. But it is inappropriate of them to do. Particularly here where the judge seems to be letting his own personal opinion get in the way of his decision making.

The outcome would have been different with a different judge, wouldnt it have? How fair is that? Not very.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, trust me I didnt forget that. $200k and a distaste for ignorance remind me every day. </p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>The point is that evidence is supposed to be evaluated by the jury and ONLY the jury in this case. This is a jury trial not a bench trial. If it is BS, it is the opposing party&#8217;s job to point that out to the decider&#8211;the jury. It is not the judge&#8217;s job to poke holes in anyone&#8217;s case because the judge is NOT the fact finder in a jury trial.</p>
<p>Judges DO get to decide whether evidence is adnissible or not &#8230; and that is where they inject their opinions all day long. It cant be helped, they are human. But it is inappropriate of them to do. Particularly here where the judge seems to be letting his own personal opinion get in the way of his decision making.</p>
<p>The outcome would have been different with a different judge, wouldnt it have? How fair is that? Not very.</p>
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		<title>By: n900mixalot</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211076</link>
		<dc:creator>n900mixalot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 17:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211076</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[They do all of the time which is why our legal system here can be a joke at times. They are humans though, so it happens. But it is improper.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They do all of the time which is why our legal system here can be a joke at times. They are humans though, so it happens. But it is improper.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Fot</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211068</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Fot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 16:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211068</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ You forget, the Judge is also a lawyer. In this case, a lawyer who has some knowledge of the subject&#039;s being discussed and shaded by other lawyers. That let&#039;s him ignore the spin and cut to the chase.

You might approve of judges blindly accepting any legal utterance as gospel fact. I however, would like the judge to have an inkling of when he&#039;s being lied to based on his own knowledge of what ever process is involved. I know it can&#039;t happen in every case, but I&#039;m glad when it does. IMHO, the best use for most lawyers is either as fertilizer or landfill, depending on the season..]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> You forget, the Judge is also a lawyer. In this case, a lawyer who has some knowledge of the subject&#8217;s being discussed and shaded by other lawyers. That let&#8217;s him ignore the spin and cut to the chase.</p>
<p>You might approve of judges blindly accepting any legal utterance as gospel fact. I however, would like the judge to have an inkling of when he&#8217;s being lied to based on his own knowledge of what ever process is involved. I know it can&#8217;t happen in every case, but I&#8217;m glad when it does. IMHO, the best use for most lawyers is either as fertilizer or landfill, depending on the season..</p>
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		<title>By: Pyromra</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211046</link>
		<dc:creator>Pyromra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 15:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211046</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s the judges job to determine if either of the lawyers are trying to &quot;Pull a fast one&quot;. It is their job to keep the lawyers in check and only allow arguments that are viable and accurate. Their job is to uphold the law. If the judge knows the argument is false and does not stop it, he is not upholding the law.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s the judges job to determine if either of the lawyers are trying to &#8220;Pull a fast one&#8221;. It is their job to keep the lawyers in check and only allow arguments that are viable and accurate. Their job is to uphold the law. If the judge knows the argument is false and does not stop it, he is not upholding the law.</p>
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		<title>By: juanitotantan</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211044</link>
		<dc:creator>juanitotantan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 14:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211044</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ So you think judges never use previous experiences to rationale about a case???]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> So you think judges never use previous experiences to rationale about a case???</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jon Doh</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211028</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Doh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 13:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211028</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Are you kidding me? If he didn&#039;t know coding than he would have wrongly taken the argument as true; his own experience is what allowed him to weight the veracity, or the impact, of the argument. Or do you think that judges should decide solely based on the books they read?

I applaud a judge that does his research, as it is all too easy to take a wrong step in such a complicated matter.

As for lack of impartiality and media awareness... please take off the drama queen glasses.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you kidding me? If he didn&#8217;t know coding than he would have wrongly taken the argument as true; his own experience is what allowed him to weight the veracity, or the impact, of the argument. Or do you think that judges should decide solely based on the books they read?</p>
<p>I applaud a judge that does his research, as it is all too easy to take a wrong step in such a complicated matter.</p>
<p>As for lack of impartiality and media awareness&#8230; please take off the drama queen glasses.</p>
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		<title>By: n900mixalot</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211018</link>
		<dc:creator>n900mixalot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 13:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211018</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While it is great, and I agree from a common-sense perspective, it isn&#039;t the judge&#039;s job to make decisions based on personal knowledge or experience. The attorneys are supposed to find and present evidence that would allow anyone (jurors) to understand the issues and make a decision based solely upon the evidence and testimony presented. Not based upon personal comments made by the judge.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While it is great, and I agree from a common-sense perspective, it isn&#8217;t the judge&#8217;s job to make decisions based on personal knowledge or experience. The attorneys are supposed to find and present evidence that would allow anyone (jurors) to understand the issues and make a decision based solely upon the evidence and testimony presented. Not based upon personal comments made by the judge.</p>
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		<title>By: n900mixalot</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211015</link>
		<dc:creator>n900mixalot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 13:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211015</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Witnesses are the ones who are supposed to provide evidence, not the judge. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Witnesses are the ones who are supposed to provide evidence, not the judge. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: n900mixalot</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211014</link>
		<dc:creator>n900mixalot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 13:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211014</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Way to inject personal experience into the case. While his experience is indeed valuable, unless he wants to testify, he needs to STFU! Considering his own experience, while clearly valuable in this instance, is wholly inappropriate. If a gay judge was presiding over a gay bashing case, and he announced during a proceeding that he was gay and has experience with gay bashng, his fairness and impartiality would be questioned.

He is the judge, not a witness, and he better pray that the media doesn&#039;t take this and run with it, and that the juror weren&#039;t present when he made his comment. 

Either way, he just secured an appeal for Oracle.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Way to inject personal experience into the case. While his experience is indeed valuable, unless he wants to testify, he needs to STFU! Considering his own experience, while clearly valuable in this instance, is wholly inappropriate. If a gay judge was presiding over a gay bashing case, and he announced during a proceeding that he was gay and has experience with gay bashng, his fairness and impartiality would be questioned.</p>
<p>He is the judge, not a witness, and he better pray that the media doesn&#8217;t take this and run with it, and that the juror weren&#8217;t present when he made his comment. </p>
<p>Either way, he just secured an appeal for Oracle.</p>
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		<title>By: kenwen</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211011</link>
		<dc:creator>kenwen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 13:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211011</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;You’re one of the best lawyers in America, how could you even make that kind of argument?” Judge William Alsup

Ouch :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You’re one of the best lawyers in America, how could you even make that kind of argument?” Judge William Alsup</p>
<p>Ouch :)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Joemonroe</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211008</link>
		<dc:creator>Joemonroe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 13:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211008</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s about time a Judge knew what he/she was talking about on some of these issues. Let him help write the next Piracy legislation. He certainly couldn&#039;t do any worse. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s about time a Judge knew what he/she was talking about on some of these issues. Let him help write the next Piracy legislation. He certainly couldn&#8217;t do any worse. </p>
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		<title>By: Phil Fot</title>
		<link>http://www.slashgear.com/oracle-android-argument-flounders-thanks-to-coder-judge-16228583/#comment-211005</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Fot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 12:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slashgear.com/?p=228583#comment-211005</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[More power to that Judge. He&#039;s the first Judge I have read about who had any clue about tech stuff. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More power to that Judge. He&#8217;s the first Judge I have read about who had any clue about tech stuff. </p>
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