Comments on: Judge rules Fifth Amendment to no longer cover hard drives

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 22:58:00 +0000

What? The US has Amendment? I thought that was only a myth and I’ve been living here for more than 13yr. Don’t look at those, just check your state/local law because that will overruled anything the founding father came up with.

By: Jfrost

Jfrost — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 22:21:00 +0000

Not so my friend. Using any of the software disk cleaners is NOT enough. As someone said earlier, you have to destroy the disk drive. I mean break it open and scratch the platters. It’s been pretty well known for a long time now that they can read the “edges” of the data tracks and recover lots of old data…

By: Donald McCallum

Donald McCallum — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 22:19:00 +0000

“simply not give the password”
Until, of course, they decide to apply the Ancient Art of (not so) Friendly Persuasion to your uncooperative self. It would be better at that point to put up a great struggle and then to finally relent…then give them the self destruct code. When that doesn’t work and they come back for more persuasion then you can give them the real number or any other thing you can think of and nothing will work. No amount of “persuasion” can make you reveal what you now don’t know.

By: Christopher Bruno

Christopher Bruno — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:48:00 +0000

The Fifth Amendment only applies to testimonial evidence, e.g. spoken words. It does not allow defendants to refuse any incriminating evidence, e.g. you are required to produce a potentially incriminating breath sample when arrested for D.U.I.; the I.R.S. can compel you to produce receipts to support a tax return; and a search warrant of your body can force you to provide a sample to be used for DNA. Regardless of what you want the self-incrimination clause to mean, the current very conservative U.S. Supreme Court is the final arbiter and they have little regard for your privacy.

By: Donald McCallum

Donald McCallum — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:48:00 +0000

rman33! We think alike! See my post. However, if the device is already encrypted, then simply erasing the private key is just as effective as smoking the whole drive but much more discreet and leaving you with really plausible deniability.

By: Jesse Painter

Jesse Painter — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:45:00 +0000

True.
In case of emergency : use Hammer

By: Guest

Guest — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:44:00 +0000

That’s why encryption programs (like TrueCrypt, which was mentioned before), are such a great idea. You create an encrypted, hidden volume inside another, which will contain what you *really* want to hide. For them, you unlock the one with your regular, hum-drum data, and they think everything’s copacetic. I think it was mentioned somewhere already, actually…

By: Jesse Painter

Jesse Painter — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:43:00 +0000

By: Thomas Mc

Thomas Mc — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:42:00 +0000

I remember back when the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights actually meant something in this country. Not any more. The fascists do whateverthehell they want.

By: Mike

Mike — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:42:00 +0000

What happens if I forgot that long ass password I used?

By: Donald McCallum

Donald McCallum — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:40:00 +0000

As a general rule, you should never put anything on a computer storage device that you wouldn’t want your mom or Uncle Sam to see. This includes all the various PDAs and other gadgets everyone likes these days. On the other hand, a useful addition to pgp (if it is not already there) would be to erase the private key needed to decrypt the device if another specific password were entered instead of the correct one. This would then make the device permanently un-decrypt-able for all time even for the owner of the device. The data would still be there and the owner of the device could then claim to apparently not know the password any longer which would be true. The fact that you had entered the self-destruct code sequence would be known only to you (in your mind) and thus protected by the 5th amendment. The disk would still be full of data that might be decrpyted someday, (possibly in the 29th century) if the law enforcement types were able to apply enough brute force decryption power for a long enough time. Just make sure that your self destruct passcode was way different from your regular passcode to avoid inadvertantly blocking your self out.The self destruct sequence should also be short and something that some smart alec geek might guess such as your birthday or social (in)security number. That way it would be likely that the private key would be erased by the “expert” in their efforts to break the lock. Then you could really exclaim (with total shock on your face) “OMIGOD! The password doesn’t work anymore!” while you were apparently attempting to comply with the warrant. No contempt of court (maybe, depending on your acting ability). You could even pass a lie detector test at that point. I hope that I have provided some pragmatic advice on how not to be forced to reveal anything that you don’t want to on your digital storage device. Capisce?

By: Anon

Anon — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:40:00 +0000

take a hammer to your hard drive when the cops come…problem solved

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:40:00 +0000

“I’d have “forgotten” the password”

well said, ditto.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:39:00 +0000

I don’t know of any over the shelf software solutions that allow for this functionality.

By: Guest

Guest — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:38:00 +0000

Calm down, Sparky.

By: PW

PW — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:38:00 +0000

That was pretty dumb of her to say she had incriminating evidence on the hard drive. That’s like saying there’s incriminating evidence inside a safe.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:38:00 +0000

So if investigators have a warrant to search my home they come in and search, but if there is a looked room they don’t ask me to open it. If i refuse they break the door. The same should apply in this case.

By: Guest

Guest — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:38:00 +0000

Oops…that was directed at liveload. My bad.

By: Luis Lopez

Luis Lopez — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:37:00 +0000

That is, unless they are not kicking your door down and you are not held up in some sort of “safe room” like Kim Dotlardo. Because in that case, you won’t even get a change to put in the DVD in the tray.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:37:00 +0000

“Instead just play it safe and don’t do anything illegal ever – sound good?”

No, it doesn’t. Have you forgotten that not that long ago, in this very country (USA), it was illegal to help slaves escape or even to teach them to write. Just because something is illegal doesn’t mean it’s wrong.

By: Chris Burns

Chris Burns — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:37:00 +0000

lol

By: Xaliengodx

Xaliengodx — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:36:00 +0000

duh .. have two passwords a decrypt password and a destroy all contents password .. this is standard in the dod black ops clandestine world.

By: Chris Kaynor

Chris Kaynor — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:36:00 +0000

If I read the article correctly, the judge is ruling that you can be forced to give up your password if the police have a search warrant for the device. This means that most police stops, including border patrol, would not be able to do anything if you refused – other than possibly detain you while they obtain a warrant, though that would open the possibility of a false arrest.

By: Dustin Roe

Dustin Roe — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:35:00 +0000

How about you raise your intelligence level a little and take note of the obvious sarcasm in the tone by the writer. Kind of like writing an article about how a diet food has been proven to potentially add to weight gain and stating at the end ” or just don’t eat ever- sound good?”

By: Luis Lopez

Luis Lopez — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:34:00 +0000

Actually, there are more than one case just like that. And it almost happened to me: While working for a company in LA I was in charge of doing their web development. At one time I was asked to put togther a gallery, so I went looking for open source solutions. I downloaded a legit gallery script that I tested and then did not use. As it turned out, the file came from some anonymous server in China and they had used it to hide links to crazy Japanese drawing stuff…(Can’t remember what is called…something-can..). While I threw the original files away, one of the url links somehow made it to the top of the company’s FTP server. Eventually I was cleared and nothing happened…..thought 5 months later I was let go for “other reasons”. The “suspicion” never really went away.

After 17 years in the tech industry I have come to realize the best thing I can do to be happy is to stay away from technology as often as I can. Out in the REAL world there are no hackers, no Anonymous, no hacktivists, no CP d#ckwads, no proxies, no firewalls.

Last week I did something wonderful: I wrote a letter with pen and paper. It was magical.

By: Foo

Foo — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:34:00 +0000

Yep, and get tasered. Welcome to the United States.

By: Xaliengodx

Xaliengodx — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:34:00 +0000

duh .. have two passwords a decrypt password and a destroy all contents password .. this is standard in the dod black ops clandestine world.

By: Chuck Glenn

Chuck Glenn — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:33:00 +0000

awesome idea. are you listening PointSec???

By: Foo

Foo — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:33:00 +0000

That wouldn’t quite work. I’m well-aware of the fact that the you can’t prove the existence of a hidden volume, but the fact of the matter is that only people who want a hidden volume actually go for TrueCrypt. Having TrueCrypt installed is likely enough evidence. Given the legal system we have they’d probably torture you until you produce a password to a hidden volume.

By: Jjc_mn

Jjc_mn — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:32:00 +0000

“If a law enforcement agent has a warrant, they can force you to open up your trunk”. That’s a lie. The police can open your truck without your consent if they have a warrent but they can’t force YOU to find a key , insert the key, and twist the lock and open it. Big difference

By: Emailwithheld

Emailwithheld — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:32:00 +0000

Hale VS Henkel 201 US 43

In the warrant it says you can take the HD but you can never ask the owner to give you the password, Contempt of Court may or may not apply if she does not want to give up her password.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:31:00 +0000

This is stupid and needs to go to the supreme court. It’s a very clear violation of the 5th amendment. You can not compel someone to testify against themselves. When will our government stop wiping their asses with the bill of rights? If I were this woman, I’d have “forgotten” the password because of all the stress of the investigation. Good luck brute forcing it you Nazi bastards.

By: really?

really? — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:29:00 +0000

Dude – it’s called sarcasm

By: Steverino143

Steverino143 — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:28:00 +0000

And…don’t do anything legal today that might possibly be deemed illegal in the future.

By: Jesse Painter

Jesse Painter — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:23:00 +0000

As scary as it sounds… All you have to do is look around to see whats happening.. As much as I would like to disagree with you, I can’t.. I agree.

By: Chris K.

Chris K. — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:22:00 +0000

Chris Burns; “Don’t do anything illegal”. You are a fucking idiot.

By: Failfakeemail

Failfakeemail — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:21:00 +0000

So the 5th amendment self-incrimination doesn’t work, but you still have the right to remain silent, right? If something exists entirely in your own head you have to right not to reveal it. Lesson one: never talk to the cops. Ever. Lesson two: Cops are liars and will say anything to get you to talk. Lesson three: not just anything you say, but EVERYthing you say WILL be used against you in a criminal case.

By: Jesse Painter

Jesse Painter — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:18:00 +0000

First Canada will see if your using a legit copy of Windows..

By: Southern Gent

Southern Gent — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:16:00 +0000

Bif, you’re far scarier than anything you just mentioned. Go find your meds.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:13:00 +0000

Plausable Deniability is a beautiful thing my friends.